so welcome everyone to the prime turning knowledge sessions uh i hope you all can hear me so i would appreciate if someone could type in in in the q a chat box give a thumbs up or whatever i hope you can hear us some short practicalities we will record this session and we will also share the recording afterwards with everyone who have signed up for the event so if you miss something or have a poor connection don't don't worry you will get the recording afterwards we will also not be able to take questions as we go but we will do a q a session in the answer please type any questions you have in the uh chat box for the team's meeting so we who are doing this today is myself um stafford lundstem i'm product manager for uh the turning tools on coromandel and primetiming and with me i have roman can you introduce yourself please yeah hello everyone and thank you for joining my name is raman potok and i am and i am aerospace machining development engineer in machining currency department so of course the most important always is our safety so i hope that everyone joining here knows what to do and in case of an emergency or an alarm so check that you know how to get out and where to call if something happens and of course we are still in this cobit situation so make sure that you follow your local guidelines and stay stay safe take care of yourself and the people around you and by that let's go into today's topic prime turning in isos materials uh prime turning a very short introduction primetiming is a method a method that allows you to to get very high productivity and long tool life by utilizing small entering angles and this is indicated by the two yellow arrows in our our symbol uh but it can also be used for let's say all directional turning like a multitask tool so you can you can turn in conventional turning directions indicated by the white dotted arrows but if you do that you don't get the same benefits as you get when using the prime timing method uh to that we also have specific tools uh you could say in theory that you could do prime timing method with a normal turning tool but you cannot and you will not get a good result so you have to have specifically developed tools and geometries for it and finally it requires reprogramming so we have programming support one toolpath cloud-based service that you can use for for the ones programming directly on the machine or directly in nc code but we also have integrated cam support in different softwares and if we take a look on the tools we have the prime a type for more light roughing to finishing and specifically for components with with some undercuts so components that you typically would machine today with the dnmg or vcmt insert there you can use the prime a type uh and then we have the prime b type that is more for for roughing to semi-finishing or even finishing of linear surfaces and dedicated for components that you today typically would machine with a cnmg insert and those are we have geometries and grades available for for the common materials but today we will focus specifically on isos titanium and heat resistant super alloys and how come then you get this boost in productivity by utilizing the small entering angle if you turn with a with a entry angle that is 95 degrees or close to your ship thickness is more or less equal to your feed rate but when you tilt the insert down you get this ship thinning effect uh meaning that you can increase the feed rate or you have to increase the feed rate to maintain a constant ship thickness so for example with a prime b insert with a 25 degree ending angle you you have to more than double your feed rate to keep the constant chip thickness so this is what brings your productivity but this is nothing new i mean the most conventional way to turn is to use the cnmd insert and turn towards the shoulder and to to get the benefits from a small entering angle you can of course use a square insert or a round insert and have a very high productivity and go to life but what you don't have with this thinset is access into a shoulder so this is where prime timing comes in and instead you can start in the corner so you get both the access and the benefits from the small entering angle with the same tool and if you look at the where or why you get such a long tool life on a conventional turning insert you put all your high heat and the large mechanical load on the on the corner and the corner is both what forms your surface finish but it's also the part of the insert where you have the least amount of carbide and the weakest points are to say while with this small entering angle you spread the heat and load out of a much more large distance of the cutting edge so this is very short why you get such long tool life difference so now we will do a very short and basic demonstration of how this works so we will start turning with a cnnv iso insert with with start values for casting data there is two millimeter depth of cut 0.25 millimeter feed rate and 40 meters per minute uh as we said when you do this in the conventional way the feed rate will equal the hex so feed rate and shift thickness are the same uh after that we will do the same thing with the prime turning insert use the constant chip thickness but then the feed rate will be more than double so 138 higher so let's start the machine we will machine dry you will of course never do that in this type of materials but it's only for the virtuality so very typical machining data for a cnmg insert and now we switch to the primetime insert and run with the same ship thickness so you can do the same machining in less than 50 of the time uh of course we were running dry as i said now so the the shape control would be much better if you if you put the coolant on but then you would not see anything in this in this demonstration so by that i leave it over to roman to talk more about why prime turning is so good in isos materials yeah thank you thank you stefan so why do we recommend to use prime turning for heater state turning first of all of course productivity as stefan mentioned they have this cheap thinning effect due to due to small entry angle and actually that means that we can use up to three times higher feeds versus conventional turning then it's a very spec specific to nickel-based alloys feature and small entry angle actually take away one of the biggest problem when you're machining this kind of material and i'm talking about notchwear so actually with small entry angle and this prime touring you're able to use sig coated cvd grades which in generally we stand higher temperature and giving you a longer two light or high or higher productivity then it's about heat distribution as stefan mentioned giving us also extra tip security because when you don't get all this heat concentrated in your radius you don't risk this area of insert to be damaged and actually to scrap your component so actually actually in all tests we run this prime turning we know that we need to replace the insert before we get too much wear on the on the radius because this is about the very pattern in prime turning technology and actually we know it because we run actually you know a lot of a lot of tests we push cutting data we generate the knowledge we get experience that we actually want to share share with you both in hrsa and in titanium machining and before i give you some recommendations let's have an overview of sandy coromandel carbide grades that can be used for header same machining they have 1105 our first choice all round great for hsa turning it's a hard grade with sim pvd coating that has a balance of plastic deformation resistance and notch resistant so it can be used for any type of insert including shoulder turning with inserts like cnmg and dnmg and etc then we have 1115 a tougher grade to be used as a backup for 1105 an additional security is required uh for example low machine or component stability interrupted turning and skin removal then also we have 4425 and it is a thick coated cvd grade this tougher substrate and actually it belongs to icp turning rate chain so it's dedicated for steel turning and usually not applied for heater say area and soon you'll see why we have it in in this list and at last but not least sandy coroman's brand new grade for heater state turning s205 this is a scene called cvd grade with hard substrate giving amazing results in history safe finishing but also working extremely well in light cropping operations with small entry angle and once again it's important to have a small entry angle for this grade due to its more heat resistant rather than notch resistant and i will show you actually some lab test results and let's start with comparing regular tonic with cng insert versus prime turning using the same pvt grade for both inserts so we'll have l15 both for cnmg and prime we will use 40 meters per minute and 2 millimeter depth of cut for aura all our tests and the chip thickness also will be the same for cnmg and carton prime insert but due to 25 degrees entry angle feed per evolution will be almost 2.5 times higher for prime turning and we used hard in canal 718 about 42-43 rockwell units for all our hrsa tests so as you can see for cng 1105 insert we have 40 meters per minute 2 millimeter depth of cut and 0.25 millimeter perf giving us productivity level of 20 cubic centimeters per minute and it took only about seven minutes for this great and cutting parameters combination to worn out the internet so total amount of material removed by edges like one 135 cubic centimeters and what's results for prime turning this if you use exactly the same same grade they get 48 cubic centimeters due to much higher feed rate so you can see it's 0.6 instead of 0.25 and the depth of cut and the cutting speed is exactly the same and the the tool life is actually uh like nine uh sorry eight minutes uh but due to we have more than double productivity then we have almost three times more material removed with the same edge so even the two like measured me in minutes is quite similar but if you really measure the amount of material we removed by edge then actually it's three times more this prime turning and now let's have a look into another great test result and this is 4425 as i mentioned before this is a thick coated cvd grade from our isop chain and it's not recommended for nickel based alloys we have the same cutting data as before but we get just couple minutes of tool life and why we have such short time actually here is the reason we're getting a notch at depth of cut creating an interpreted risk and that's why sick coating cvd grades are not recommended for machining of nickel based alloys for classic way of shoulder training with cng insert it gives much worse results than pvd crates and once again what about prime turning here we go we get significant improvement improvement over 1115 we have 12 minutes in cut and almost 600 cubic centimeters removed and that really shows the magic of entry angle so this prime turning it's possible to gain the advantage of his resistance cvd great without suffering of notchwear so it really extends a great application area you can see this iso peak rate works really well in nickel based alloys with prime turning but let's come back into classic official isos great chain as as we know 1105 is the first choice for hsa turning with 90 degrees and triangle so we take that one for cnmg instead a nest s and s25 is the first choice for small entry angle so we'll use it for chorotome prime insert and in simple word we just trying to use the best grade for each application area as you can see we have nine minutes of two life is seen in cnmg insert and 1105 rate and multiplied by 20 cubics per meter per minute productivity that gave us about 180 square cubic centimeters removed by h and quartz on prime this asto5 grade works for 20 minutes and that's almost a thousand cubic removed by a single edge and we still have more than two times higher productivity and uh actually it's more than five times more material removed by one h so that's the power of prime turning applied in heat resistant super alloys in combination this is our latest cvt great for hrsa and i think it's time to give some re recommendations for prime turning in nickel based alloys and obviously recommend to go for s205 as a first first choice when you're applying prime turning in in in canal and the similar materials i recommend to cut to keep cutting speed in the range of 30 to 50 meters per minute and to have depth of cut below 2.5 millimeter due to a hard substrate of the grate and the feed rate it's actually better to to push a bit with the feed rate and to have at least point six millimeter ref and if you have a stable condition it can be really beneficial to increase it even more by 20 or 30 percent and the good starting point as you as you saw is 40 meters per minute 2 millimeters depth of cut and 0.6 millimeter per rep that that can give you about 20 minutes of tool life in each hardened in canal 718 but prime turning is actually quite uh quite flexible and you can adjust your cutting data depending on what your priorities are so for example if you're looking for even higher productivity then what you what you can do you can increase one of cutting parameters and we actually recommend to increase the feed and uh yeah you can increase it by 20 or 30 percent and get the productivity level of more than 60 cubics per minute per minute and as you can see the two life decrease and of course it decreased but it's not like a dramatic drop i would say and if we look at the amount of material removed by same but by one edge then actually it almost yeah it remains the same so it can be a really good productivity booster for stable machining condition and let's consider the opposite case you agreed to sacrifice like 20 of productivity but to get even better to life and consume less inserts in your production in this case we recommend you to decrease cutting speed like by 20 so we have 32 meters per per minute and that gives us the productivity level of 38 cubic centimeter per minute and the two life will be really amazing it will be more than half an hour of two live with a single edge so you get plus forty percent of material removed with a single edge uh if you decrease the cutting speed by twenty percent versus the starting data so it's quite flexible and we see the insert works good but what about the send requirement offers in tools for prime training and there is a radial tool there are excel excel tools are also tools for multi-task machines with b axes and even tools for internal turning because it's possible to use prime tourniquet actually for to bore the holes in the component and i want to show you one of the application scenarios a short overview sandy corman's developed component solutions for key industry segments and of course aerospace is is one of them and we designed some generic component that looks like as a real component that we can see at our customers and we do that to develop and test on our solutions in the condition similar to what our customers have and here's examples this is our generic design turbine disk so we take one of uh design elements like this long drive arm and we put it into a smaller workpiece to test solutions so for these features there is actually significant amount of materials that should be taken away during graphing rough boring operation so we decided to try apply prime turning technology even if it's internal turning and here we can see the operation plan we assign cutting data close to the top of range and in this case it should take like 16 minutes to remove about a thousand cubic centimeters of inconel and uh yeah i can tell i can tell you that this cutting data worked out despite high radial forces and you can see the productivity level is actually 70 cubic centimeters per minute so after after we get confirmation that this process works we machine some more features like this to film a video that we're gonna show show to you right now actually [Laughter] so the video and on this slide you can you can see the actual workpiece before and after performing of this internal bore roughing operation so you actually can see that there is a lot of material being taken away with this prime turning method and this is at 200 millimeters round stock so as i mentioned we took away a thousand uh cubic centimeters of think now with prime turning in in just 16 minutes and let's have a look how insert looks like after this so uh they had meta removal rate of 70 cubic centimeters per minute and i i could say this is a really high level for machining in canal with carbide insert it's it's like three four times higher versus what you usually have with seen in g12 and similar insert and due to we used a high cutting data we had a shorter tool life and two edges were required to complete the the operation so it was two edges lasting for eight minutes each one an alternative would be to decrease cutting speed by 30 to 40 percent and meaning the same drop of productivity and then one edge would be actually enough to complete the whole feature so that was roughing of nickel base always but material but isos material group also includes titanium always so staffan do we have something to share about titanium always as well yes of course we have done the same studies in titanium machining so i will shortly present some of the results and findings there also first of all now you see a comparison of uh similar to what romans showed in in heat resistant super alloys but in titanium we have compared cnmd inserts in h13a with a prime b insert in h13a and we have a machine with the same cutting speeds and the same ship thickness but again here the the cutting feed is increased by 138 percent uh due to the small entering angle uh so this means that in minutes you have a very similar tool life the cnn insert is right over half an hour into life and same with the primary insert but you remove more than double the amount of material in the same time and this is with the with the moderate cutting speed so to say if we increase the cutting speed and increase the productivity to 60 meters we keep all the other parameters constant but run with a higher cutting speed uh the productivity obviously increases up to 72 cubic meters per minute but you drop your two life down to right below 20 minutes uh but one good thing to notice uh is as roma described when you don't get the notch where on your edge as you can see the parts of the prime minister that forms your surface finish and the component is is very uh what do you say not damaged so so you will have a very good cutting edge forming a component even if you get the further back on the edge so the first choice recommendations for titanium is to go with the h3 geometry for prime b and h 13a uncoated grade and stay in the range between 45 and 60 meters per minute depending if you're after two life or if you are after productivity and the feed rate in the same range then of course between 0.45 and 0.6 millimeter per revolution and depth of cut less than three millimeter but start values start value two millimeters is a good starting point and the same here if you want to trim your operation for for focus on dual life for focus on productivity and we compare the start values uh 60 meters per minute two millimeter depth of cut and 0.6 millimeter per revolution in in feed and and to get better too life the best option is to reduce the feed rates so here we've reduced the feed rate to 0.48 millimeter per revolution revolution uh 20 lower and then you get over 40 minutes into life which is which is extremely good to this type of material and as you see on the cutting edge it looks almost unused so you could probably run it a little bit longer as well so we have close to double the amount of metal removed and if you go the other way around and totally focus on productivity uh we have the biggest gains by increasing all the three parameters so here both the feed rate and the cutting speed is increased by twenty percent and the depth of cut is increased to three millimeter uh then you have a drastic drop in two life from 40 minutes down to six minutes but you you have very high metal removal rates 156 cubic centimeters per minute so you you double the metal removal rate compared to the start values and now we will have a short look in the same way of machining as we did in in the introduction so we will compare a h13a insert cnmd with 0.2 millimeter in feed rate of 60 meters per minute two millimeter depth of cut and hey the hex is same to your feed rates again and if you machine the same thing with prime turning and keep a constant chip thickness the feed rate is 0.48 millimeter per evolution so more than double productivity so let's jump into the machine again we are machining dry just for the visuality of the of the picture so that was the dry machining and you can see how fast the primetime method is and of course when you put the coolant on you you will have a much better ship formation and chip evacuation but now we have looked at the say semi roughing or roughing applications but the effect of a small entering angle is is no different if you would look at a finishing cut so if you would compare vbmt or dnmd insert with a prime a like in this case you have the same situation so going from a 95 degree entry angle or similar you your feed rate is equals your ship thickness but reducing the entry angle also finishing allows you to double the feed or more than that so the priming prime a inserts they have a 30 degree entering angle meaning that you have to double your feed rate to maintain the same shift thickness so by saying that i leave it over to roman to describe some cases in finishing thank you stefan um i recommend to use quantum prime a for finishing due to smaller cutting forces and also the grade profiling capabilities and both for titanium and hrsa we recommend to go for l3 geometry as a first as a first choice but for titanium titanium alloys we recommend to use uncoated grade h certain a and the cutting speed should be in range between i would say 80 to 120 meters per minute and for in canal and other heat resistant super alloys very common recommend to go for pvt grade 11 11 15 and the your cutting speeds could be in the range between 60 and 100 meter per minutes maybe 120 meters so what about recommendations for depths of cut and the feed rate actually we don't we don't have ones because the depth of cut is usually defined by the nature of finishing operations so usually you you use two millimeter to point five millimeter doesn't matter what tool you're you're using and when it comes to the feet it's also defined by the requirements of surface surface finishing so the better surface quality you want to get the the lower feet you use so it actually completely depends on on your requirements same as with any other i would say turning tool or even like this vbmt and so on but you can see the great recommendations and you can see the cutting speed recommendations and let's com let's compare the vbmt iso insert versus prime turning type a insert and again we will use the same grape and this is titanium so we go for uncoated h7a grade and we use the same cutting data 80 meters per minute 0.3 millimeter depth of cut and 0.2 millimeter perf as you can see in this bbmt insert we have like 44 minutes before we get flank wire of 0.2 millimeter and this value is often considered as a end of two life for finishing inserts in aerospace aerospace industry so 44 minutes is our result so what about prime turning same cutting data same grades and we have more than 78 minutes of two life to get only 0.1 millimeter in flank pair so you definitely can see the difference in the var pattern between vbmt and prime insert and actually we stopped the test but definitely that insert can work much much longer i could say so when we have such long tool life it's quite natural that we would like to increase the cutting speed to have to have higher productivity and of course we tested this as well so let's see what will be with prime turning insert if we increase it to 120 meters per minute and as you can see we have 18 minutes of to life before we we reach 0.2 millimeter in flank there also below you can see the value uh which which is thinked as fsa and that means finished surface area so actually this parameter is representing actual tool life in finishing so it shows what component area has been finished before the end of two light and this is actually a very convenient parameter if you for example want to compare two life and finishing between different variants with different uh these different different cutting data so okay uh we have 18 18 minutes is 120 meters per minute and also you can see uh you can note how the wear um spread it along the edge so this maximum of 0.2 millimeter of flare we get in the insert area which is quite a way of the point of insert which actually generates the component surface so you you can you can be really safe and secure and confident about the component quality and this is extremely important when you actually perform finishing of expensive components if you increase cutting speed even more to 140 meters per minute then we actually have a a huge drop of two life you get only five minutes of two left so this cutting speed can be considered as too high but what can help in this condition is to use high pressure coolant which is becomes more and more common on the modern machine and all tests we run we run this 30 30 bars of coolant pressure and it can be increased to 70 80 or even higher to get longer too late and when it comes to in canal test results we have same depth of cut and we have same fit but now we go for 115 pvt pvd coated grade and for cutting speed of 8 80 meters per minute we have more than 20 minutes of of tool life and this is actually a quite good parameter i would say and again you can see how the housing there looks on the on the radius so you you really know that uh it's very small there where in the insert area but it's critical for the component quality and if increased cutting speed even more to a hundred meters per minute then we get um 10 minutes of tool life giving a finished surface area of 2000 square centimeters so we definitely see that this two life period is much larger than something we get with i iso insert with similar parameters so even if you actually cannot increase the productivity a lot due to the feed feed rate limitation because they're connected to a surface finish requirements you still can get a much longer tool life with prime turning and sometimes to increase the cutting speed versus the same grades in iso insert so at the summary this is what you can expect from prime turning in finishing this is a really good solution when you're looking for a longer tool life for example if you have a large component and you what and you want to do finishing in uh yeah in continuous cut without making any stops to change the insert then prime turning can be really good solution for you because you can have double or even triple two life versus the regular iso insert so yeah this is actually all what i wanted to what i wanted to share from from my site so maybe we have some uh conclusions and reminders stuff on uh when you machine with prime timing there are basically two very important things to remember and the first one as you saw in in the machining videos we made you need to make a soft roll in into the components so the start value would be to make a rolling with a radius that equals your depth of cuts and also in the rolling sequence you have to reduce the feed rate not to exceed 0.35 millimeter per revolution but in these materials the recommendation is to go lower so 0.15 or 0.2 in millimeter per revolution in the in the entry path and the second important part is to remember that your entering angle is is not fixed to the tool it's relative to your feed direction so if you would start machining down a taper or a taper upwards you either need to decrease your feed rates to maintain a constant chip thickness or if you have a tapering the other way you need to increase your feed rates to keep a constant ship thickness and all of this is automatically taken care of in the programming support we have so if we summarize very short what prime turning is it is a method that gives very long to life and high productivity when using the small entering angle but can also be used as a flexible tool for conventional turning but then the two life and productivity will be as with the normal turning insert uh it requires specific tools and dedicated geometries today we have the prime a type and the prime b type but you can be sure in the future to see more of the tool types for the prime tuning methods and finally we have the coreplus toolpath support for do the reprogramming and to take care of ensure that you have a smooth roll in and a constant chip thickness all the time so we have one service for sandvik coromant but we also have integrations with partners and today we have certified prime turning solutions in mastercam uh in cambridge hcl and and in cms nx [Music] so there we have certified primetime solutions that make sure you get the right cutting data and in feeds and so on so that was a very short repetition and if you want to know more about the method and the tools and the programming support you will get links to previous knowledge sessions after this event sent to you so you can look at demonstrations of cam programs for example of the program so by that we jump on to the questions we have that i come in and first of all i would like to ask all of you to scan the qr code that you have on the screen now and give your feedback to what you thought of this event and possible improvements and also what you would like to see more of in the future if we do similar technical sessions so now i have a look at the questions coming in and first one here is what software can i use to program prime turning and that was what i just showed you you can of course do this with some hands-on in in all softwares but really automated programming support you have in mastercam cam works and as nx so far and and more to come and of course than in our own core plus toolpath software uh second question is how is the tool life of the insert comparing with the conventional one and i think we showed that uh pretty clear you can say that you can at least increase your tool life but at least 50 percent compared to prime timing possibly more but it depends i would maybe add that in roughing in isos materials you actually can expect two times from two types up to five times more material removed by one single edge depends on how we define the tool life if it's material exactly but i think the smartest way is actually because what you want to do you want to uh remove material from your components right so actually that's why you're using the insert so of course if you measure in in minutes then it will be not such high increase maybe two times or 50 percent as you mentioned but if you really measure in material removed by single ends and it's a a huge difference two or five times yes thanks one more here are ceramic grades for prime timing planned notch where pattern of the process would be beneficial for ceramic while getting more productivity with higher speeds what would be the limitations of prime with ceramic that's a very good question and of course uh these are in the in the considerations um but first of all you can say that that carbide has a much more reliable wear than ceramics so it is for sure interesting if ceramics could be used with the prime tuning method but on the other hand the ceramics are more sensitive to the tent size dresses stresses which you get when machining in this way uh roman do you have something to add about the comparison between with carbohydrates yeah you i think you said the the right thing so of course ceramics is very suitable for prime turning method but maybe the current insert designs is not so suitable for ceramics due to we have a hole in there and the carbide is of course much stronger than ceramic so this this sensor shape is good enough for car carbide but for ceramics we could use the method but i think then we need to reconsider the insert design so to say maybe the insert clamp while clamping the the intro so it's not only about the creating it to be to redesign the tool a little bit exactly correct uh so another question from yes but are you also working with massage to include the programming support i assume in there ai when it comes to the machine tool makers this support has to be integrated on the machine since you don't have the internet connection or can run it from you cannot really connect to our systems in in such an easy way so actually i think you have to ask your machine supplier uh muslic in this case uh for for the available programming support and here comes another question when machining internally do the cutting forces bend the boring bars and uh yes they do roman maybe you can explain more about that yeah i can definitely explain that's a very a very good question we have a lot of uh radial cutting forces and on the example you you saw we used actually a standard solid steel capped boring bar which is quite short i think it's it was a 50 millimeter diameter bar with 2.5 times overhang and definitely will have some painting so we'll have maybe the yeah the 0.2 millimeter wrong in diameter or maybe 0.1 so uh but it's still good enough for you know for this rough boring operation this prime turning because then you can do the final pass with a smaller depth of cut and actually take away this um diameter diameter error but if you work with longer overhangs for internal turning it's possible actually to use prime turning with our damped silent tools adapters and it works so you will have no vibrations you will get a good process but then due to the overhang of the which of the boring bar which can be six times d or even ten times d and more then there will be a really big mismatch between the the theoretical damage and the final one then you can have i would say half of depth of cut still remain on the work piece so it's not a big problem for short solid steel bars especially when your last pass is you you're taking with a smaller depth of cut but that's definitely a problem with uh longer mars tempting bars that's true thanks roman our time is soon up there but i think we have time for one last question and this is about the residual stresses on the component what about residual stresses does this high productivity method stress the material that's a good question i actually can answer it because we started in residual stresses with prime with prime turning compared to cnmg insert and actually we used exactly the same data as you show as you saw on the slides so i can i can say that there is no difference in the residual stresses after the depth of 0.2 uh millimeter so basically when you use finishing and when you when you take away the 0.2 or 0.3 millimeter in cut or finishing then actually there will be no difference at all there is some difference yes but how to say i don't remember all the graphs in my in my head but it was maybe 20 different or something like this but it it the difference disappears after the depth of 0.1.2 millimeter the surface so thank you roman and if you have more questions please type them in we will not be able to answer now our time is up but we will try to answer them uh to you by email if you have any further questions so by that thank you very much for joining and thank you roman we will share this recording with you also afterwards so about that thanks for us and hope you had enjoyed the presentations thank you goodbye